High Voltage measures Vb,V1 & V2 dedicated ISO codes and new fine locations

Suggestions for new codes
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Miguel A Gallego
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:24 am
Company: Applus IDIADA Group

High Voltage measures Vb,V1 & V2 dedicated ISO codes and new fine locations

Post by Miguel A Gallego » Wed May 27, 2020 6:42 pm

Dear all,

I have been looking into ISO-MME standard and I have not found a specific fine location for the measures done in electric vehicles and specified in several regulations (FMVSS305, ECE R94, ECE R95, etc.). Those regulations define Vb, V1, V2, V1’ and V2’ and this measures are often acquired but in the standard is not specified which fine location should be used so that labs and OEMS can define them in different ways. In my opinion is worthy to decide and specify ISOCODES for these measures.

ISOCODES using the standard without any change could be as follow:

- 10TBAT000000VO0P : Vb Battery voltage between HV+ and HV-
- 10TBAT010000VO0P : V1 Battery voltage between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis
- 10TBAT020000VO0P : V2 Battery voltage between HV+ and vehicle electrical chassis
- 10TBAT010200VO0P : V1’ Battery voltage between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis with R0 inserted between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis
- 10TBAT020200VO0P : V2’ Battery voltage between HV+ and vehicle electrical chassis with R0 inserted between HV+ and vehicle electrical chassis

But I would rather propose use Fine Location 1 and Fine Location 2 and create new dedicated codes FL1(VB, V1 and V2) FL2(R0) and my proposal would be as follow:

- 10TBATVB0000VO0P : Vb Battery voltage between HV+ and HV-
- 10TBATV10000VO0P : V1 Battery voltage between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis
- 10TBATV20000VO0P : V2 Battery voltage between HV+ and vehicle electrical chassis
- 10TBATV1R000VO0P : V1’ Battery voltage between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis with R0 inserted between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis
- 10TBATV2R000VO0P : V2’ Battery voltage between HV+ and vehicle electrical chassis with R0 inserted between HV+ and vehicle electrical chassis

All comments are welcomed!

Miguel A. Gallego

DiVe
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:14 am
Location: IAT Berlin - Germany

Re: High Voltage measures Vb,V1 & V2 dedicated ISO codes and new fine locations

Post by DiVe » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:44 pm

Dear Mr Gallego,

the requested codes do make sense to me. We should/can request feedback from other labs OEM's to verify that all requested voltages are covered.
Is this coding also reasonable for electrical current?

The "numbered approach" is compatible while the "special codes approach" is much more self descriptive.

In the database the V1, V2 and VB codes are available for FL1:
FL1_V-Codes.png
FL1_V-Codes.png (14.11 KiB) Viewed 558 times
and also R0 is available for FL2:
FL2_R-Codes.png
FL2_R-Codes.png (38.63 KiB) Viewed 558 times
May the longnaming is really a long naming in this case and required a shorter version to be handled in the documentation?
I also guess that the '-sign might be problematic for the exchange format. Even though the character is included in the first
128 characters of the ISO/IEC 8859-1.
I am not familiar in detail with the referenced regulations. So please can you explain what the ' character stands for?

A shorter variant for:
"V1’ Battery voltage between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis with R0 inserted between HV- and vehicle electrical chassis"
could may be:
"V1’ Battery voltage HV- against vehicle electrical chassis with R0"

In principle the ISO-Code is a location code rather than a function-based code. Nevertheless, I expect the new coding has the potential to simplify the exchange of this requirement by the regulations.
We have a task force meeting on Thursday this week and will discuss your request further.

Kind regards,
Dirk Vetter
Last edited by DiVe on Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

pfeiffge
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:18 am
Company: Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

Re: High Voltage measures Vb,V1 & V2 dedicated ISO codes and new fine locations

Post by pfeiffge » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:15 am

Dear colleagues,
there is no question, this issue is worthy to find defined codes. In practice, there often is only a possibility to measure the three high voltages in the power cable, not directly in the battery, so the Volkswagen group is using POCA (power cable) for the main location. Regarding the regulations there is talked about the battery, this will be the reason for different naming (TBAT = traction battery).
To reduce the number of fine locations we are using PO (positive), NE (negative) and 00 (T+/T-) in the following way:

voltage v1 = 10POCA00NE00VO0? (T- / chassis)
voltage v2 = 10POCA00PO00VO0? (T+ / chassis)
voltage vb = 10POCA000000VO0? (T+/T-)

Are both voltages v1' and v2' needed? VW is using OU (outer) for fine location 2. We don't store these values as a channel. Anyway comments are welcome!

kind regards, Gerd Pfeiffer (PAG)

DiVe
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:14 am
Location: IAT Berlin - Germany

Re: High Voltage measures Vb,V1 & V2 dedicated ISO codes and new fine locations

Post by DiVe » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:30 am

Dear colleagues,

some feedback from VW as a table:
2020-06-03 13_05_12-Window.png
2020-06-03 13_05_12-Window.png (11.81 KiB) Viewed 542 times
with the comment:
" F2 = „OU“ will be used for the voltage provided by the logger to measure the isolation."

Kind regards,
Dirk

Miguel A Gallego
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:24 am
Company: Applus IDIADA Group

Re: High Voltage measures Vb,V1 & V2 dedicated ISO codes and new fine locations

Post by Miguel A Gallego » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:00 am

Dear collegues,

Here is my proposal:
Voltages.PNG
High voltage "standard" measures
Voltages.PNG (15.24 KiB) Viewed 300 times
I propose the use of a new main location “HVSY” High Voltage System and some changes from the initial codes discussed in last meeting with new fine locations. POCA and TBAT cand still be used but I think would be interesting allow HVSY main location for those projects where the measure place is not relevant (as can change depending on the test or the tools available, etc.) and we may allow a generic main location for the whole system voltages.

Fine location 3 is used with new fine locations “CH” for chassis, “NE” for Negative and “R0” for the Resistance R0. I think the showed way is much more descriptive, general and is not leading to confusion. As can be seen, Vb is also defined where is measured in fine locations 2 and 3.

Once this basic measures are defined, we would also need to define the measures before the main relay or measures upstream. Those ones are always done in the traction battery TBAT and I propose the codes in the table below:
upstream.PNG
Voltages upstream
upstream.PNG (9.94 KiB) Viewed 300 times


In these codes fine location 1 is using existing code “IN” to clearly define the measure is done inside the battery pack. This is useful to differentiate Voltages and currents upstream and also when acelerometers are used will be useful to know whether the sensor is installed inside or outside the battery pack.

The last proposal will cover the isolation resistance codes. For those codes, main location will be always HVSY and I propose the creation of new physical dimensions “IR” Isolation resistance with units (Ohm/Volt) and “TV” Test voltage with unit volts which is the voltage used to measure the isolation resistance by using a Megohmmeter. The next table is suggested:
isolation resistance.PNG
Isolation resistance measured with megohmmeter
isolation resistance.PNG (31.33 KiB) Viewed 300 times

As you can observe in the table we cover all the possible situations. IP and OP are fine location 1 existing codes and are used to define whether the measure is done straight or inverted (usually both are done). “IR” will be the result of divide RE/TV. On the other hand, isolation resistance is not always measured using a megohmmeter and sometimes is the result of calculation using VB, V1, V2, V1’ and V2’ so that in this situations codes for isolation resistance would be:
isolation resistance 2.PNG
Isolation resistance calculated
isolation resistance 2.PNG (6.15 KiB) Viewed 300 times

All comments are welcomed!

Best regards

Miguel Ángel

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